Posts made by Whisper

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

That is why I have talked about daily quests so those are not getting mixed up with daily activities. Daily activities are not integrated daily quests do not let the word daily to confuse you. If we think of timed crafting it is needed from economical point of view. Those timers prevents overproduction of certain crafted materials and keeps them more valueable and rare that way. Without any restrictions markets would overflood of almost everything and people would have too easy access to all items and especially for gear.

Dailies are something that happen daily.

A daily quest is a daily. An event that happens daily is a daily.

Just because there is not an NPC that says, "This is a Daily quest" does not make a daily event not Daily.

If it functions daily. The reward is daily. The activity is daily. It is daily. The word, "Daily Quest" doesn't need to be tied to it to magically change its function some how.

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

Taxes are needed to run a society but daily quests are not needed to run a game. That is why it was a terrible example.

Dang, you are so close to understanding the analogy.

Yeah fractured has timed crafting which is not a same thing than daily quests. If someone claims something else then he/she does not know what he/she is talking about.

A daily is an activity that happens... Daily. If a tree has a daily timer. It is part of a daily system. If it takes a day to create leather. It is part of a daily system.

It's why I keep saying Fractured has the best system for it. It is integrated into the game and they don't use the word Daily Quest which makes people not only okay with it but thankful for it. It's a great way to do it.

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper Your arguments are getting weird, comparing daily quests for taxes, seriously? Forget about it.

If I answer you directly you don't see it.
If I make an analogy to simplify it you claim its getting weird.

I hope you understand I wasn't saying Dailies are taxes. Just that the analogy between the two works. But it's all good. Stay safe out there!

You answered yes but the quality was pretty low

That's your opinion. And you are clearly only intending to see your side.

and none of those where actually why someone would want to do daily quest and actually enjoy doing those.

If this helps think of it as taxes. Most people understand taxes are needed to keep a country moving forward. You are like the guy saying, "Why do you like taxes!? Why do you want taxes?! Wouldn't life be better if we didn't have to pay taxes?! How could someone enjoy taxes!??"

This thread is like someone asking, "How much taxes do you think is the right amount?" And people are saying 5-25% and then you saying, "Well World Of Warcraft has these terrible daily quest" is like someone coming and saying, "This country had a tax rate for 80% and it failed their country! so we shouldn't have any taxes".

But... No one was suggesting 80% tax rates (Like no one was suggesting the worst kind of dailies)". And then after someone explains to that person why taxes are needed that person just turning around ignoring it all and saying, "Yeah but how can they enjoy it!"

If the game offers interesting content in various areas people will login anyway and if they can go to do what they really enjoy instead of a daily quests they will stick with the game much longer.

Not if they finish all the content and there is no longer a reason to login.

If you think the content what e.g. Fractured offers gathering, crafting, farming, building, trading, OWPvP, sieges, dungeons, asteroids, skill progressions, exploring... every single aspect of the game is better option to spend time in the game than daily quest in every way.

You realize Fractured has daily content as well that is locked behind 24 timelocks right? (We refer to that as dailies).

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

There is not such a thing that good daily quest, those simply does not exist, at least from player point of view.

This is an easy point to prove wrong by just pointing at the Poll. 57% of the people who voted disagree with you.

43% dislike Daily Quest. 43% like Daily quest. 14% Don't care either way.

And one person already mentioned that he misclicked the like button and could not change that so the result is biased and most people dislikes daily quests.

Here is something to think about: PC Gamer

I am actually very interested to know why anyone would like to do daily quest? What is good in those from player point of view?

That is one person. It doesn't suddenly account for the difference and make it 100% Dislike it. No matter how you cut it, it shows your statement is unequivocally wrong.

Probably people who have played games without them and have gotten all the content in the game and realized there was nothing left to do but stop playing. Or play once a week with no gain for yourself but just to help others. But it is pretty hard to stay engaged with a game you play once a week for no gain to yourself.

Or people who understand getting people to login daily helps a game a great deal.

If you look closely your answers what is good about daily quests, don't you see any problem there? None of those explains why daily quest are something what players actually want to do. Some people might be okay with daily quests because thay have not experienced those that much but if we put on scale daily quests on other and freedom to go do anything you want what game offers to another, who is that sick bastard who chooses to go with daily quests?

I did answer what is good about daily quest. You just don't want to see the answer. That is okay though. I understand I can't force you to see something you don't want to see but it doesn't change the fact that I gave you the answer on why.

My answer to that question is the same as the previous. People who have played games without them will understand this. If there are not daily activities when you finish the content the game offers you end up with nothing to do.

It's why Fractured is going the best route. They are giving daily activities via 24 hour timers but they just aren't using the word daily quest so people are not only okay with it they are thankful for it. Integrating them into the game in a fluid way is really the best way to do it.

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

There is not such a thing that good daily quest, those simply does not exist, at least from player point of view.

This is an easy point to prove wrong by just pointing at the Poll. 57% of the people who voted disagree with you.

43% dislike Daily Quest. 43% like Daily quest. 14% Don't care either way.

And one person already mentioned that he misclicked the like button and could not change that so the result is biased and most people dislikes daily quests.

Here is something to think about: PC Gamer

I am actually very interested to know why anyone would like to do daily quest? What is good in those from player point of view?

That is one person. It doesn't suddenly account for the difference and make it 100% Dislike it. No matter how you cut it, it shows your statement is unequivocally wrong.

Probably people who have played games without them and have gotten all the content in the game and realized there was nothing left to do but stop playing. Or play once a week with no gain for yourself but just to help others. But it is pretty hard to stay engaged with a game you play once a week for no gain to yourself.

Or people who understand getting people to login daily helps a game a great deal.

There is not such a thing that good daily quest, those simply does not exist, at least from player point of view.

This is an easy point to prove wrong by just pointing at the Poll. 57% of the people who voted disagree with you.

43% dislike Daily Quest. 43% like Daily quest. 14% Don't care either way.

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

Archeage Unchained is a good example of sandbox MMORPG which chose to use daily quest system to keep players busy and login daily. After few months a lot of players have already quit and one of the main reasons (perhaps even the #1) has been the daily quests. Therefore, Archeage is a good example why daily quests should be used as less as possible. Moreover, sandbox games should be more careful because daily quests fights against players freedom of choise and general nature of sandboxes.

If the people are being forced to do Daily Quest then it is already one of the worst kinds of daily quest.

No one here said, "What are the worst daily quest you can imagine, and should we put those ones into the game" Lol.

I think the avenue Fractured going is one of the best routes. It is integrated into the game. The word Daily Quest is not tied to it so people are not only okay with the activities that have a daily timer on them but they are thankful.

It is the best of both worlds.

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

Oh well, this is just going circles so I guess it is better to stop here. We already got the answer that there won't be any daily quests so that is enough for me.

Yeah. Very true. I think we argued this debate to the end. And as Specter pointed out there will be daily mechanics (And doesn't use the word daily quest so it doesn't trigger people) that can only be done once a day, and some mechanics that happen once a week/month (But we won't call them weekly/monthlies because that might trigger people) that encourages people to play daily and weekly/monthly.

It really is the best system since it is doing exactly what a Daily/weekly/monthly does but doesn't use the word daily/weekly/monthly so doesn't trigger as many people.

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Gothix said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

You realize the irony that you thanked Specter for his comment when he specified there is content that will require people to be active daily. They just aren't called dailies.

And if you still don't understand the difference, thats the core of your problem.

Few bonus gold here and there will never have that much weight, however psychological effect on player is real.
"Daily quests" push players away from the game. They kill the fun in the game, and make a game feel like job.

I think the core of your problem is you think there is a difference when there isn't lol.

A daily activity with a 12-24 hour timer is exactly the same as a daily quest.

I thought you already understood the difference... Oh well, I give it a go one more time. A daily activity like crafting timer is just an optional task what you can do if you want to or totally skip if you are not interested. Daily quests are usually a core part of new content, a large system, what people are forced to do day after day for weeks. The difference is HUGE.

You keep trying to pass your opinion on one type of daily as a fact on every single type of Daily but that is wrong.

Not all dailies are mandatory. In fact most are optional.
Not all dailies force people to do them day after day for weeks.
Not all dailies are a core part of new content. Lots are trivial rewards.

Daily quest can be completely optional.
Daily quest can be not tied to a weekly system, or long grind. This is especially true if they are completely optional
Daily quest can be a small part of the game used to encourage people to log in daily.

I would completely agree with you if someone came in and said, "This game needs a daily system that is mandatory. It must demand people do it every single day. And they only get the epic weapon of greatness if they do it for a month straight. And I want it to be directly tied into progression of the game!".

But.. That is the opposite of what literally everyone was asking for and a shinning example of what not to do with a daily quest system.

@Jetah said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper

Or I can kill people who are wearing that gear.

There's still a complete difference between getting raw resource then processing it vs going to do a task to get a reward from a NPC.

Just look at WoW and their daily quest debate. It started in BC when dailies were first introduced.

That can be said for the majority of dailies in existence (That you can get it a different way).

Any game that has a daily system that gives the daily unique rewards that can't be gotten any other way is the worst example of that system.

@Gothix said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

You realize the irony that you thanked Specter for his comment when he specified there is content that will require people to be active daily. They just aren't called dailies.

And if you still don't understand the difference, thats the core of your problem.

Few bonus gold here and there will never have that much weight, however psychological effect on player is real.
"Daily quests" push players away from the game. They kill the fun in the game, and make a game feel like job.

I think the core of your problem is you think there is a difference when there isn't lol.

A daily activity with a 12-24 hour timer is exactly the same as a daily quest.

You can give any argument you want why dailiy quests can be good, but the above are the facts that still remain. At least for major part of playerbase.

This is your opinion. My opinion is Fractured already has them in place. But they are integrated into the game. I think anyone who supports daily quest would be okay with that, and as it seems some people who absolutely dislike the idea are okay with it as well.

Sounds like a good compromise to me.

@Jetah said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper

So if I don't craft I dont have them, correct?

As others have pointed out. I'm not going to an NPC, getting quest or going to a spot and doing a bounty, every day for gold or whatever reward.

Now since NPCs can get stronger over time, I can see some system where we can be asked to thin a particular enemy type. But this won't happen every day.
I don't think I have met a game that forced you to do a daily quest.

And you won't be going to an NPC for them but if you want leather you will be going to a tanning tub. If you an logs you will be going to a tree. If you want to farm you will be going to your farm area.

@FibS said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

They are not saying, "Collect 12 hides today". But you might want to set 12 hides to start tanning so the next day you can have 12 leather.
[...]

... or you might set 5, or 18, or 100. You are not required to follow the exact and consistent rate of 12 a day or else have 0 for some days, as you would if it was a daily quest.

If you do 0 you get 0. I guess doing it this way has the benefit of deciding the exact number you want but doesn't change the mechanic behind behind an activity to get people to log in daily.

There is a limit on hides/leather you can do a day though based on how much of your property would be just tanning tubs.

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper Well Jetah was talking about daily quests and actually so did you in the original post. And if we want to be accurate, in most cases dailies refers to daily quests and that is almost a standard in MMORPGs. So if someone wants to use word dailies when meaning crafting timers please go ahead but be ready to cause a lot of misunderstandings.

Daily quest are used to get people to login daily.
They have daily/monthly (or weekly not sure how often claim maintenance is there) activities to get people to login daily.

I feel like at this point we are arguing the semantics of the words and not the purpose/spirit. I agree that Fractured are not using the word daily quest in their daily activities that will be there. But they are there none the less.

They are not saying, "Collect 12 hides today". But you might want to set 12 hides to start tanning so the next day you can have 12 leather.

They are not saying, "Collect 6 logs". But if the 2 trees outside your territory are up you might want to gather them before they are gone for the 12-24 hours they are gone for.

They are not saying, "Collect 4 Rabbit Feet" but if you want to have some good enchants on the gear you are going to remake when yours breaks you might want to collect some rabbit feet.

They are not saying, "Gather 200 Gold" but if you want to pay the taxes on a claim. You might want to gather 200 gold.

Again. I agree they are not calling them daily quest and giving you an NPC saying, "This is your daily quest". But they are the same exact thing.

No no no... I guess you have not played WoW. That game created a standard for daily quests what other games have copied since then. Those are a totally different thing than a crafting timers I mean like from a different world.

The base idea of sandbox game is the freedom of choise where players have a huge role to create own stories, events and have influence to the economy and environment. Players are not forced or pushed to do anything specific and when they login they go to do what ever they want, not all players want to be crafters or farmers so they they skip the whole timed thing. Almost every MMORPG has timed content but those are not called daily quests.

I agree with this. This is why fractured use of daily activities makes sense. It is the perfect application of daily quest for a sand box game.

With daily quests lets go with the WoW model. Almost everytime when a new patch launches there will be a new end-game content which is at that moment the thing what everybody should and is almost forced to do. These new patches brings usually punch of daily quests which are used to progress a certain faction reputation to unlock better gear, recipes, mounts, progress with the storylines etc. Idea is that players do those same daily quests from NPCs over and over again after weeks they have achieved their goal or they have stopped because of getting bored asfak. This is typical for themepark MMOs that the game (and developers behind it) determines what you should do with your daily playtime.

Yeah, I think the general consensus is that is the worst type of Daily quest. Ones that feel mandatory and are time consuming. Two of the worse combinations. Add in requiring long farming and it would be the three worst choices.

I hope I could now explain the difference and why when speaking of daily quests so many people gets irritated, it is almost like a red flag to people. Those who have played WoW and other games which uses somehow similar daily quest systems they know what I am talking about, they feel the pain. I personally like a much more of sandbox games than themepark MMOs and the reason is simple, freedom of choise what I am going to do with my playtime which can be quite limited especially during weekdays and I do not want to use that time to do same quest over and over again from week to week.

I hear you on disliking those kind of daily quest. Especially on ones that force you into it. What you mention here is one of the reasons I was first attracted to Fractured. There gear system is non-linear which means without spending every waking moment farming the best gear you can compete in the PVP in a balanced and fair way (Or at least more fair than most MMO's where the end game gear dwarfs normal gear in every single way where it is not even a match up).

So far I don't think I really disagree with anything you are saying here.

So lets keep the sandbox clean and leave the rollercoaster to themeparks.

I don't think anyone was arguing for time consuming, mandatory, in your face daily quest, lol. Like Specter said there will be activities you have to do daily if you play daily. Like gather supplies for food. Throwing in leather to be tanned. Or your farming activities. Or claim/city maintenance. Etc.

That is more than plenty. I think some people got triggered because they saw the word Dailies. I should have been more specific (or more general) and said, "What are some ways to encourage people to play the game daily"

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper Well Jetah was talking about daily quests and actually so did you in the original post. And if we want to be accurate, in most cases dailies refers to daily quests and that is almost a standard in MMORPGs. So if someone wants to use word dailies when meaning crafting timers please go ahead but be ready to cause a lot of misunderstandings.

Daily quest are used to get people to login daily.
They have daily/monthly (or weekly not sure how often claim maintenance is there) activities to get people to login daily.

I feel like at this point we are arguing the semantics of the words and not the purpose/spirit. I agree that Fractured are not using the word daily quest in their daily activities that will be there. But they are there none the less.

They are not saying, "Collect 12 hides today". But you might want to set 12 hides to start tanning so the next day you can have 12 leather.

They are not saying, "Collect 6 logs". But if the 2 trees outside your territory are up you might want to gather them before they are gone for the 12-24 hours they are gone for.

They are not saying, "Collect 4 Rabbit Feet" but if you want to have some good enchants on the gear you are going to remake when yours breaks you might want to collect some rabbit feet.

They are not saying, "Gather 200 Gold" but if you want to pay the taxes on a claim. You might want to gather 200 gold.

Again. I agree they are not calling them daily quest and giving you an NPC saying, "This is your daily quest". But they are the same exact thing.

These are things even at end game if you have the best armor/weapons you will need to do daily. Or almost daily. You will always need materials because armor breaks. You will always need regents because enchants will need to be used on the new armor. You will always need to pay the fees for your claim/city.

RIP EQ Next. RIP Chronicles of Elyria.

Both of these games promised a lot of things and couldn't live up to them. And EQ Next was amazing fun. Even though it never saw the light of day I greatly enjoyed playing in the little creator thing they gave us.

Fractured is taking a different course. They aren't exactly reinventing the wheel. Instead they are taking something we have seen before and twisting it into something new and different. Instead of a Pve isometric, or a pure pvp isometric, or a isometric that tries to balance the two we are getting all three. We a nice touch of claiming land and fighting over territories mixed in. There is something for everyone and more importantly they are doing it in a practical way.

The core of the game is already there. You can jump into the Alpha test right now to get a taste if you wanted. Or you could wait till later. I am pretty hyped about the next test in June since it will have the city mechanics in it.

I don't see any reasons we wouldn't see a beta and a release. They are pushing forward greatly with each Alpha test I have been a part of. The progress is easy to see, and easy to appreciate in game.

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper I would like to remind that there is a huge difference between daily activities and daily quests. Most people are fine with optional daily activities like crafting timers but if we start talking about repetitive daily quests like e.g. in WoW those are something what a lot of players just hate so much. So if we speak of dailies we have to define what kind of activity we are talking about.

I am going to point to the title of this thread. Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.

My initial post was never, "This is what a Daily is and is the only way to do it". It is the exact opposite with, "What is your favorite type of Daily" or, "What would you like to see them as". Their answer to that is, "Fractured already has plenty of ways to encourage players to log in. Claim upkeep (carpenter), crafting timers, tending the farm, etc." which in my opinion really is the best way to do it.

There are still dailies in there with activities/resources with a 24 hour timer, activities/resources with a 12 hour timer, and weeklies/monthlies (Claim/city maintenance) and activities you will need to do daily or bidaily (Crafting armor that has broken, regathering supplies for enchanting the newly crafted armor, etc).

Fractured has picked the best way to go about it in my opinion.

@Jetah said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

The goal of a daily isn't to force people to grind for hours but to get people to login daily.

and daily log in's don't pay bills. thus is a horrible metric.

@Specter
thanks for that comment \o/

You realize the irony that you thanked Specter for his comment when he specified there is content that will require people to be active daily. They just aren't called dailies.

They won't have dailies but there are resources that have a 24 hour cooldown and nodes that have a 24 hour cooldown (What does that sound like?).

They won't have weekly/monthly but have a system that requires you to pay out various resources or lose your claim/city (What does that sound like?).

I guess in a way Fractured has the perfect daily/weekly/monthly system. It is integrated into their gameplay. And not only are people who are against dailies for it, they are thankful for it.

I will say Fractured's take on dailies might be the best way to go about it.

I think partying with a person or two will solve your starting with a mage issue right up. I started as a tanky build this Alpha and I was tempted to call the quits on it after seeing mages in my party tear through mobs like butter.

It wasn't until they started moving ahead of me and I saw their life drop quickly that I realized I still served a purpose there.

I plan to force myself to do a different build each Alpha if possible. Not sure what my main will be yet.