Best posts made by Whisper

@Znirf said in The End of most Sandbox PVP Games-The losing side.:

Hello everyone, it is still too early to speak about this kind of things, we didn't have cities or sieges yet!
Anyway, it is a tough topic to discuss, and we are aware that it will be one of the main things to care about in the future. From our side, we can say that our will is to maintain a balance between guilds, we won't give too much power to the biggest ones and we will try to avoid that. For sure, there will be bigger and stronger guilds, and we won't apply any members caps. Remember that spaces for city buildings will be limited, and if a guild decides to have more members than the city could host, it will be forced to have different settlements with following problems about communication and mobility (especially for resources transports). Another thing that will make things harder is the knowledging system and the "need" for exploring and discovering. Guilds will be tempted to reach different parts of the planet to be competitive (maybe conquering a crucial geographical point or a relic); in this way, having too many cities concentrated in the same place won't draw a critical advantage.
Last, if a guild will succeed to conquest a settlement, it will force the losers to pay taxes and ONLY if they won't be able to do that the city will pass to the winners.

Thanks for the reply!

But sounds like the perfect time to see this discussion played out! I wouldn't recommend doing it afterwards as an afterthought.

Though, no matter which side you pick some people will be upset. Or on the bright side, no matter which side you pick some people will be happy

I just see so many great PVP sandbox games die from this reason when they were incredibly fun at the start from both sides of the coin (Small guilds and mega-alliance guilds). But if you are even acknowledging this point you are ahead of a lot of sandbox pvp games lol.

@Farlander said in The End of most Sandbox PVP Games-The losing side.:

PvP seems to always be the most argued point in any MMO I've ever been associated in lol. It boils down to this, everyone isn't going to be happy and you just have to be able to try to please the majority of the players so the game doesn't tank.

Or, it boils down to, "Everyone isn't going to be happy but with one point leads to the death of the game, and the other one might not".

For example. This is an influence map of Atlas shortly before their wipe when what I was talking about was in affect.

https://i.redd.it/d4ha3450ypi21.png

You can sail from your home Island for nearly 2 hours without ever moving out of your Alliance territory. If you were in AoP you could sail for around 4 hours without ever moving out of your alliance territory.

Luckily for Atlas the game wiped before one side was able to dominate but the death grip of 2 factions was already there.

To put it in perspective just two months prior the map looked like this.

https://i.redd.it/4ho65f9zz9821.png

Allowing sides to rapidly gain power with no checks, balances, or trade off for it leads to the death of Sandbox PVP games.

I do agree at the very start it is more fun. But whether you are on the winning side, or the losing side, it quickly loses the fun once a victor is made and the game dies.

@Roccandil said in Enchanting table Guide - Basic Mechanics - How to:

l like the enchanting system, but if at the end it turns into a gamble, that will be a big turn off for me.

Gear has durability and breaks. If you are unlucky I would save that gear for use during grinding situations (Where stats really don't matter too much). Or for trade/sale.

Awesome write up @PedroBillyMattos ! I had fun playing with you yesterday!

@Roccandil said in Enchanting table Guide - Basic Mechanics - How to:

@Whisper said in Enchanting table Guide - Basic Mechanics - How to:

I would say it does. If there are 5 items that can light up half the stats those are the 5 items everyone will farm  for those half of the stats if they can pick from the list.  The rest of the world besides those two biomes would be empty. Why go anywhere else? And even worse. The world will be over flowed with perfect gear because it would be easy to obtain/made by anyone and everyone.

That's not a problem for RNG to solve. Rather, that's a question of balancing the reagents themselves, both composition and distribution, as well as balancing what "perfect gear" actually is, such that players desire a wide variety of gear enchanted for different tasks.

RNG is a crutch that poisons games.

Right now 4-5 regents can light up half the board already. And we don't have high tier regents yet. Right now 4-5 regents can cover that spread of a wide variety of enchanted gear for different tasks. Which is why I am suggesting the RNG system is good. People can use the best tier regents and then RNG will throw them a wide variety of gear, that they can then use for a variety of different task. Leading to trade, community, and an economy as they can trade the gear for regents, or gear they want.

And people who want a specific enchant can do the math, and farm specific items that only light up the enchant they want.

It's not like the current system is true RNG where you have no idea what the regents do, or what numbers they give, or what number is needed. You can completely remove the RNG if you want. It doesn't make sense to look at a system that allows you to do a little extra work to remove RNG completely and then say remove this because it has RNG in it.

Just do the extra step and remove the RNG

I feel like this would sap any value the item has. Unless they are designing a game where everyone will be handing out the best items with the best enchants because drops are 100% and nothing is rare. This would mean they need an amazing PVP scene or some sort of amazing PVE content that can take the rest of the time.

Though I do love the idea of knowledge playing into drop rates. Though not to an extreme degree.

I think your idea would be fantastic if the game was designed around it. Using emergent gameplay as an example. If they made a game where a rabbit dropped its rare drop everytime but instead of making the drop rare they made it so if people killed all the rabbits they were gone for the day/week. And instead people had to take the time to breed them. That would create a game where I think your idea works perfectly. And enemy guilds would likely send in people to kill those farms creating game content that is player driven.

As it is now though I think that would just devalue enchants/items.

We already ignore most creatures in the game because we don't need to kill them. Right now if you see a fox/rabbit it is exciting because you might get a tail/foot and is probably one of the more sought after kills. 100% drop and they would just be another creature people ignore.

The spawns are static. I was able to find enough Rabbit spawns near me that I can run from spawn point to spawn point and by the time I get to the start they have respawned already. And you said you have 10 near you which is more than me so you should be able to do the same.

This isn't something I think the devs need to create a new mechanic for. This is something that players should be able to solve.

I think a lot of this will be solved with just moving out of Alpha. For example. I have no problem hunting rabbits at the moment but I don't like traveling what feels like an hour to be near the starting area. Once the game is live I would gladly be farming those rabbit feet to trade for more common mats in bulk that are just too far away for me to want to go farm them.

But being Alpha I am obviously not going to farm more than I needed, and I am not looking for extra mats for item replacements at the moment either. This is something I think would solve itself with trade and community interaction.

1. If a guild city is created can people not in the guild still settle in the city if they have permission or would it be strictly guild members only?
2. If a free city has the 2/3rd votes to become a guild city what happens to the 1/3rd of the people who voted against it? Do they get kicked out, or do they remain in the city?

Unarmed and one handed weapons are classified as "caster weapons" sas well, no need to swap.

Are you sure about this? I tried to cast Fireball using a Hammer, Axe, and Dagger. Everytime I tried with everyone one of them I got a message that said, "Can't cast with a melee weapon:". And if you don't have a weapon you can't assassinate.

So you will need to swap.

Thats why ganker would stun first. If going glass canon build, accuracy would have to be maxed (as well as luck in case crit damage doesnt work for nukes).

Try to stun first. They can fail. And they will need to get close to do it. If they fail they will be at a huge disadvantage being a glass cannon build. And since your Dex will be your stealth modifier will be low as well. And since your con will be low your chance to resist someone stunning you if you fail will be lower than theirs as well.

This is a gamble.

Stun lock is not going to get into final game.

Can you link to the source of this claim?

Absolutely agree on that.

Glad we see eye to eye on one of the issues

My big hope is there will be at leas one nuke of each element on level of Fireball (just as there is Fire totem and Poison totem). My bet is at least Lightning and some kind of frost ubernuke.

I 100% agree with you on that. I hope that humans get fire, and Demons gets one element and the beastmen get an element as well. To give the diversity and give people that extra push to travel to other planets.

To immunities in pvp - such mechanics have nothing to do in pvp (immunity to soke kind of CC at the cost of being more susceptible to other kind of CC would be bearable, but full immunity to damage element? In PvE game it would be cheezy tactics considering we can prepare for every encounter - aka going into fight knowing I´m 100% winning this because Im immune to enemy; for PvP game it´s even worse, literally making encounter just coin toss (he´s immune to my damage - Im dead / Im immune to his - he´s dead). Still hope immunities eoither won´t get into final game, or that they will not work on players (or at least with huge maluses).

I would agree with you if this was WoW or any MMO that allows you to have all your abilities up. But we also have to keep in mind we have Memory and each skill takes up its own amount of memory. And on top of that we can only have our 8 abilities up. So even if someone had all the memory in the world they still would have to pick 8 abilities.

And it's only a coin toss if someone decides, "I am only going to use only Fire damage". Use a little diversity. People cannot have up multiple protections. The moment they cast one they lose the other. All this means is if someone wants to end the match in 3 seconds, it's going to be a huge gamble. Possible but no where near a guaranteed thing.

Agreed, as said in text above. Trust me, i hated this concept the moment fire immunity aura was reveled

Yeah, I don't think our core concepts are too far off. I agree with you if you get that stun off, if you deal high damage on Fire Ball, land Assassinate, and Power Word Kill is not resisted it could be a quick fight.

I only disagree that it is over powered. Even if every step in that move is executed and your opponent doesn't counter at any point it still counts on multiple if statements working in your favor.

And because of the weapon swapping, and timing I feel like it requires enough talent, and(or) luck that the method should be a viable one.

I will say I also agree that 100% immunity is a bit much. 2 Memory is too little for 100% immunity in my opinion. In my opinion it should be tiered. 2 memory for a tier 1 fire resistance that gives a chuck of fire resist. Then a tier 2 for 4 memory that does more. Etc. Then finally a last tier that gives 100% but takes up the same memory as powerful moves (6?).

Or as a hard counter to that hard counter. They could just make dispell an ability that remove buffs.

My last thread started getting filled with people who disliked Dailies and I felt like it deserved its own post. And I think we can all agree daily quest that take up a lot of time become cumbersome quickly.

What are some games you think have done them right? What kind of daily quest would you like to see? Or they just an obstacle you would rather not be there?

Personally, I would prefer the daily involved with the city system. Maybe like a system where cities give dailies involving resources around them (Mountain cities asking for mountain resources, forest for forest resources, etc). I think the devs mentioned cities will need to collect food/resources. Maybe the daily could be tied into that system. Like each day the first time you turn in food/gold/whatever resources to the city you also get a daily reward for it (Rewards could be random regent from a different biome, with uncommon rewards of regents from different planets, or whatever).

That way it is something we will already be doing, but it gives us the incentive to login and do it daily. I know no one really likes dailies but I feel they are a necessary evil. I have played many games where I end up with friends who only really log in for the daily/weekly outside of raids/events.

I think partying with a person or two will solve your starting with a mage issue right up. I started as a tanky build this Alpha and I was tempted to call the quits on it after seeing mages in my party tear through mobs like butter.

It wasn't until they started moving ahead of me and I saw their life drop quickly that I realized I still served a purpose there.

I plan to force myself to do a different build each Alpha if possible. Not sure what my main will be yet.

@Jetah said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

The goal of a daily isn't to force people to grind for hours but to get people to login daily.

and daily log in's don't pay bills. thus is a horrible metric.

@Specter
thanks for that comment \o/

You realize the irony that you thanked Specter for his comment when he specified there is content that will require people to be active daily. They just aren't called dailies.

They won't have dailies but there are resources that have a 24 hour cooldown and nodes that have a 24 hour cooldown (What does that sound like?).

They won't have weekly/monthly but have a system that requires you to pay out various resources or lose your claim/city (What does that sound like?).

I guess in a way Fractured has the perfect daily/weekly/monthly system. It is integrated into their gameplay. And not only are people who are against dailies for it, they are thankful for it.

I will say Fractured's take on dailies might be the best way to go about it.

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Tuoni said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

@Whisper Well Jetah was talking about daily quests and actually so did you in the original post. And if we want to be accurate, in most cases dailies refers to daily quests and that is almost a standard in MMORPGs. So if someone wants to use word dailies when meaning crafting timers please go ahead but be ready to cause a lot of misunderstandings.

Daily quest are used to get people to login daily.
They have daily/monthly (or weekly not sure how often claim maintenance is there) activities to get people to login daily.

I feel like at this point we are arguing the semantics of the words and not the purpose/spirit. I agree that Fractured are not using the word daily quest in their daily activities that will be there. But they are there none the less.

They are not saying, "Collect 12 hides today". But you might want to set 12 hides to start tanning so the next day you can have 12 leather.

They are not saying, "Collect 6 logs". But if the 2 trees outside your territory are up you might want to gather them before they are gone for the 12-24 hours they are gone for.

They are not saying, "Collect 4 Rabbit Feet" but if you want to have some good enchants on the gear you are going to remake when yours breaks you might want to collect some rabbit feet.

They are not saying, "Gather 200 Gold" but if you want to pay the taxes on a claim. You might want to gather 200 gold.

Again. I agree they are not calling them daily quest and giving you an NPC saying, "This is your daily quest". But they are the same exact thing.

No no no... I guess you have not played WoW. That game created a standard for daily quests what other games have copied since then. Those are a totally different thing than a crafting timers I mean like from a different world.

The base idea of sandbox game is the freedom of choise where players have a huge role to create own stories, events and have influence to the economy and environment. Players are not forced or pushed to do anything specific and when they login they go to do what ever they want, not all players want to be crafters or farmers so they they skip the whole timed thing. Almost every MMORPG has timed content but those are not called daily quests.

I agree with this. This is why fractured use of daily activities makes sense. It is the perfect application of daily quest for a sand box game.

With daily quests lets go with the WoW model. Almost everytime when a new patch launches there will be a new end-game content which is at that moment the thing what everybody should and is almost forced to do. These new patches brings usually punch of daily quests which are used to progress a certain faction reputation to unlock better gear, recipes, mounts, progress with the storylines etc. Idea is that players do those same daily quests from NPCs over and over again after weeks they have achieved their goal or they have stopped because of getting bored asfak. This is typical for themepark MMOs that the game (and developers behind it) determines what you should do with your daily playtime.

Yeah, I think the general consensus is that is the worst type of Daily quest. Ones that feel mandatory and are time consuming. Two of the worse combinations. Add in requiring long farming and it would be the three worst choices.

I hope I could now explain the difference and why when speaking of daily quests so many people gets irritated, it is almost like a red flag to people. Those who have played WoW and other games which uses somehow similar daily quest systems they know what I am talking about, they feel the pain. I personally like a much more of sandbox games than themepark MMOs and the reason is simple, freedom of choise what I am going to do with my playtime which can be quite limited especially during weekdays and I do not want to use that time to do same quest over and over again from week to week.

I hear you on disliking those kind of daily quest. Especially on ones that force you into it. What you mention here is one of the reasons I was first attracted to Fractured. There gear system is non-linear which means without spending every waking moment farming the best gear you can compete in the PVP in a balanced and fair way (Or at least more fair than most MMO's where the end game gear dwarfs normal gear in every single way where it is not even a match up).

So far I don't think I really disagree with anything you are saying here.

So lets keep the sandbox clean and leave the rollercoaster to themeparks.

I don't think anyone was arguing for time consuming, mandatory, in your face daily quest, lol. Like Specter said there will be activities you have to do daily if you play daily. Like gather supplies for food. Throwing in leather to be tanned. Or your farming activities. Or claim/city maintenance. Etc.

That is more than plenty. I think some people got triggered because they saw the word Dailies. I should have been more specific (or more general) and said, "What are some ways to encourage people to play the game daily"

You answered yes but the quality was pretty low

That's your opinion. And you are clearly only intending to see your side.

and none of those where actually why someone would want to do daily quest and actually enjoy doing those.

If this helps think of it as taxes. Most people understand taxes are needed to keep a country moving forward. You are like the guy saying, "Why do you like taxes!? Why do you want taxes?! Wouldn't life be better if we didn't have to pay taxes?! How could someone enjoy taxes!??"

This thread is like someone asking, "How much taxes do you think is the right amount?" And people are saying 5-25% and then you saying, "Well World Of Warcraft has these terrible daily quest" is like someone coming and saying, "This country had a tax rate for 80% and it failed their country! so we shouldn't have any taxes".

But... No one was suggesting 80% tax rates (Like no one was suggesting the worst kind of dailies)". And then after someone explains to that person why taxes are needed that person just turning around ignoring it all and saying, "Yeah but how can they enjoy it!"

If the game offers interesting content in various areas people will login anyway and if they can go to do what they really enjoy instead of a daily quests they will stick with the game much longer.

Not if they finish all the content and there is no longer a reason to login.

If you think the content what e.g. Fractured offers gathering, crafting, farming, building, trading, OWPvP, sieges, dungeons, asteroids, skill progressions, exploring... every single aspect of the game is better option to spend time in the game than daily quest in every way.

You realize Fractured has daily content as well that is locked behind 24 timelocks right? (We refer to that as dailies).

@Gothix said in Your favorite Dailies, or what you would like to see them as.:

While it may take a day to craft leather, you may for example also steal that leather from someone else, or purchase it, or... (other sources of obtaining it, without cooldown)... You are not forced to do this daily activity, and you can still get that item in another ways.

But this is still not the point, as I said, the main point is psychological effect "daily quests" have on players.

I feel like that is an unfair example because as many have stated they prefer their daily quest to offer unimportant items, that aren't unique to them and don't force you to do them.

It would be like if I asked someone if they liked Oranges and they replied no because if you eat a rotten one they taste nasty. And then someone saying what about this fresh one that isn't rotten?

I completely agree with you that some dailies are excessive and cumbersome (This statement is in my starting post) and some dailies use high tier items that are unique to them. Both of these are the worse way to do them (Rotten if you will).

However, there are plenty of dailies that don't do that. That can feel integrated into the game and just highlight what you were already going to do (Fresh if you will).

Fractured's daily system is integrated into the game with daily timers (Nodes/Resources/Farming/Etc) and Weekly (or monthly) claim maintence. Which makes me think you are 100% right on the issue really being psychological since we had someone go from hating the idea of daily quest to thankful that the game just uses 24 hour timers to get people to login daily lol.

With daily quests players are encouraged / forced to login daily basis by the Developers.

Encouraged yes. Only a bad daily would force a player to login. That is what makes it feel like a job.

The Developers does not need to create new content when they can recycle the old one with repeatable quests.

Absolutely not. I am not even sure where this came from. I haven't ever seen an MMO forego new content and instead just used dailies. I mean, it probably has happened and is a perfect example of what not to do.

Again. This thread wasn't, "What is the absolute worst type of Dailies, and lets use those ones". It is, "Your favorite dailies, or what you would like to see them as".

And as we are shown they prefer to use an integrated system that has 24 hour timers (Daily), and weekly (or monthly) maintenance on claims/cities. It's a good system.

I wish there was a third option that desired a mixture of the two.

@Manaia said in Skills gained through different means:

Getting non-combat skills would be fun.
I wouldn't expect any combat skills to be gotten by gathering/processing/profession stuff, but definitely should be rewarded for doing more of it. Right now they exist as knowledge but it's a one-shot thing - it's either you have it or you don't, there's no knowledge grind for these things, just a checklist if you have it or not.

I like this idea. Would add a whole new dynamic to being a crafter/gather focused player. I feel like gathering regents used for poisoning could offer poison based skills/buffs (Maybe just increasing their usage duration or amount created when crafting poisons), etc.

Not sure if we are passed the point where they could add something like this but it is a great idea.