@Gothix said in Sieges: And how to make those a whole guild activity:
Perhaps cool down can be added, so when one character attends a siege, he has a cool down before he can join next one, so players will have to rotate who does each siege, so not same players have fun with siege all the time, while rest watch.
Cooldown is one good option if some limitations are wanted to create. It might even be that restrictions are not needed but I guess beta test will show how this will go.
@Farlander Good question, it is hard to say but it sounds like a challenge. I presume this can be done but how much this will be away from performance and will cause unplayable lag are the big questions.
@PeachMcD Hostile NPCs would be easy to justify and your predator example is one good option. It is also easy to use NPC factions like goblins or invent something totally new like outcasts. If these invasions wants take to another level then players actions could have impact how often invasions will happen and how strong are those attacks. Meaning, depending how much players have for example killed certain mobs or animals or even if they have gathered too much a specific resources.
New World MMO will actually have some kind of invasion system and perhaps some ideas could be borrowed from there: New World: Invasions
@SatelliteMind89 Because there will not be sieges in Arboreus and management of the cities centre to be handled by politics it would be so cool if guilds and cities would need to deal with NPC attackers. Even we are talking about PvE planet that should not mean that the most exciting activity is picking flowers or hugging trees.
Therefore, I suggest that different continents in Arboreus could be furnished with different dangerousness level and that way offer also a hardcore PvE content for those who are interested. This should not be just limited to defend NPC invasions but also the environment in general could offer challenging mobs and animals, rare rewards and maybe even the most dangerous areas could contain lethal enemies which will not just knock you down but also cause full loot drops by killing players.
@Gothix I am not personally familiar with TSW and I presume we are talking about Secret World. Anyway, at the moment in Fractured, I have a feeling that passives does not have a huge role and those concentrate either increase or decrease your effectiveness. And I would personally like it be more so the focus would be in the actions and different ability variations. Passives be 300% of a build sounds terrible tbh. 
@Razvan Moreover, In Fractured, if things are getting too heavy, we always has the option to move in Arboreus and relax. 
Also I presume that if things are getting too serious in Tartaros, perhaps Syndesia offers a good middle ground solution where is more space for semi-hardcore or even for casual guilds, at least that is what I hope for.
@Razvan said in Sieges: And how to make those a whole guild activity:
In Albion, everyone contributed to the territory attacks, especially in big guilds, but in more subtle ways.
This is true. Especially when playing in Black Zones almost everything was done for the guild.
...guilds had dedicated gatherers who donated % of their mats and dedicated crafters who donated focus to supply this gear. Albion has a lot of detailed logs, so you could reliably tell if the gatherers donated the agreed percent.
One thing I hate about in Albion is how those dedicated crafters were too often shared slave alts of elite and not exactly players who really were dedicated for crafting. Of course this was not the thing in all cases but too many times gatherers did the actual dirty job so selected people could refine and craft for easy fame and have a free-cost progression. I hope that could be avoided in Fractured.
I remember how those detailed logs were not in the beta or at the launch and it was a really hard task to create a reasonable donate system which could not be abused. This logistic nightmare burned some members from our guild very fast and also tighten the general atmosphere. It is a really good that this QoL feature was finally implemented.
This also concludes why I quit: all that activity not only takes a lot of time, but also requires people to log in at a certain time every day. Then you also have season-related stuff (mage def, mage raids, maybe castles). If you play about 30h/week, you have no time to do anything other than guild-related stuff and if you're in a bad guild, a lot of content is locked from you. If Fractured turns out to have the same model, I'm not sure this is the game for me.
Now this is a crucial part what I hope will be done better in Fractured. I hope that players would not need to devote 100% for the guild and there also will be time for themselves even in the top guilds. However, I also hope that when it is time for some serious action, in this case sieges, those events would offer a wide range activities for all members in their specializations.
Would this kind of model sound better than what it is in the Albion?
In Albion those GvGs can happen daily which is one of the reasons why especially in top guilds there is constant demand for devote all the playtime for the guild. I am not sure how this will go in Fractured but I presume sieges would happen a little bit more rarely, perhaps weekly, I have no idea and I would actually like to know what is planned. Based on the latest Q&A it was said that sieges cost a lot of money and I got the impression that sieges are not a such thing what guilds can afford to do in daily basis. This would actually support the idea that sieges happens a little bit rarely and players would have more time for themselves and they can focus to do other 'not so serious' stuff with their guild members, like random OWPvP activities.
@Tuoni said in Sieges: And how to make those a whole guild activity:
@Jetah said in Sieges: And how to make those a whole guild activity:
the problem that Archeage had was guilds would use freelancers to attend the castle sieges. they'd join the guild before the siege and afterwards would leave that guild.
I remember how this was a problem also in Albion where basically the same people inside alliance was fighting most of the matches. However, this kind of guild hopping can be blocked with setting timers so you cannot change guilds straight away and especially if trying to get back in the guild you have recently left. Okay this helps in some cases but of course alts can be used as well for this kind of behaviour.
However, at the moment the system is planned like you can rent mercenaries to fight your battles. This can of course work just fine but there is a possibility that this system can be used too much wrong. Imagine a situation where you try to attack against different guilds, cities or defend your own, and every time you face the same top team without chance to compete.
@Jetah said in Sieges: And how to make those a whole guild activity:
the problem that Archeage had was guilds would use freelancers to attend the castle sieges. they'd join the guild before the siege and afterwards would leave that guild.
I remember how this was a problem also in Albion where basically the same people inside alliance was fighting most of the matches. However, this kind of guild hopping can be blocked with setting timers so you cannot change guilds straight away and especially if trying to get back in the guild you have recently left. Okay this helps in some cases but of course alts can be used as well for this kind of behaviour.
@Phylosophys said in Sieges: And how to make those a whole guild activity:
Hi @Tuoni,
Just some clarifications that maybe you missed from yesterday Q&A on Sieges. First, the number of participants in sieges DO depend on the size of the city. For small cities, the number is the 20x20 you mentioned, but for metropolis size cities the number of players is 50x50. At least this is their initial plan.
I knew it, I had the feeling that I missed something especially related to this part, thanks. Anyhow, I am pleased this is the plan, it makes a lot of sense imo.
Regarding to yesterday arranged Q&A where sieges were one of the main topics. I would like to see sieges more like a whole guild activity rather than centrilized around a minority of the playerbase. In Albion Online territory wars are usually 5v5 battles which has leaded to discussions that is this the best procedure or not. This divides opinions, most of the people will be totally excluded from for GvGs but in other this gives also for smaller guilds a chance to compete. Now if I heard right, in Fractured there will be at least 20v20 fights (and please correct me if I am wrong) and I think that sounds very reasonable number of participants.
However, I was wondering, that what if the number of participants in sieges would depend of the size (stage) of the sieged city? Therefore, if those city stages are still a thing it would make sense that conquer a metropolis would need more than 20 players and in other hand if we are speaking of a hamlet or village perhaps a smaller amount of players can be enough.
I do not know what is exactly planned but it would be great if a siege would need investment from the whole guild and not just from those who are in the siege battle team. I would personally like to see crafters and gatherers involded as well, not to actually participating for fighting, but maybe for making all kind of preparations related to defensives and siege weapons and maybe even repair those during the siege, or perhaps crafting something new if strategy needs to be changed in the middle of the battle. Perhaps there could be something related to gear crafting as well idk...
What you people think? Would it be nice if sieges would need effort from almost a whole guild? Not just beforehand but also more closely the situation or even during the battle. Do you have any ideas how different specialist could be utilized during the siege? Or perhaps do you think that the whole siege situation should be handled only by the battle team?
@Gothix said in Concerns related to the attributes:
Active skills are easy to observe, yeah. Especially through recording.
But passives are much harder to read, especially if they don't come with visible effects. It all depends how game is designed.
Hmmm... I was wondering, that what would be such passives that would even need inspection? I am not saying there could not be any but from my experience it is enough to see what others wear and what abilities they use. Passives does not usually offer anything game changing and you can expect your enemy to use the best ones (meta wise) anyway.
Personally, I would love if game came without (or with "opt in" gear inspection).
Default: inspect off, and it is only available if you click allow for your gear to be inspected.
Personally, I do not even care, inspection or not I am totally fine by that. I do not inspect much other players anyway so I guess without inspection would support better my personal play style. However, I am not sure what would be best from the game point of view...
What if the archeology would been bound to exploring? There can be various ancient objects like statues, ruins, vases or any kind of old items and places where peole can travel or accidently wander. These can be part of the environment but also at random locations like resource nodes.
Archeologist can then examine these items or places and they can found decorations, rare ingredients for crafting, treasures chests, or even pieces of artifact items. Loot will vary from very basic stuff to uncommon and even to extreme rare items or parts there of. These were just few examples but this kind of archeology would encourage people to explore in the open world, it would be alternative way to make money, find interesting rare drops and maybe even collect more information of lore.
So I would kind of move @VyrVandalous base idea more to open world and encourage people to explore.
@Bramibal said in Details on inter-planetery travel for each race:
I've been reading on the topic of de drawbacks and benefits of traveling to other planets for each race but I seem to be not able to find any concrete details.
Are they already known and have I been reading over it or isn't it published yet?
Here is few articles which gives you some information how the planets works and how the travel between them are planned to be implemented:
@KairosVal said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Tuoni said in Concerns related to the attributes:
Perhaps the human-readable part can be camouflaged behind skins, but if we have option to inspect then it does not really matter.
Still reckon there's a big difference between seeing it at a glance and having to click open an inspection menu then move it out of the way of combat then read it all while fighting and trying not to die.
Not sure if an inspection option is planned, but if implemented, would be interesting if the level of information revealed was linked to the perception attribute.
It is true that fast inspection can be hard especially to casual players but those who play at competitive level this is most likely not a problem at all. However, we have to take account that we do not know how the sieges will actually work. If those are just 'fast paced chaotic pew pews' perhaps then there is not enough time to do any inspections. However, if the fights have at least some level strategy and waiting then it won't be a problem to check what the other team has to offer. It is also not a problem to top teams change a strategy in the middle of the fight based on what they have seen what their enemy is capable of (what abilities they use and what they wear).
Even you could not react to the other team in the middle of the fight next time you do and most likely will know other teams too because streams and videos will take care of that. I am not sure how familiar you or any people here are how things really works at competitive levels and especially in games where two team are figting for each other for any reasons. I have been part of hardcore and semi-hardcore guilds in Albion where territory wars is the end-game content. Even I have not fight myself in those competitive GvG fights I have followed quite close how the things works, helped with territory war logistics (gathered, crafted, transported) and participated to ZvZ actions. When you can follow so close what the top players are capable of it is actually amazing, something like reading the enemy via inspecting or through their actions is so damn easy to them.
Like @Razvan I have also some burden from Albion which can twist the vision how the sieges in Fractured will work. However, actually I expect sieges in Fractured offer something more than GvGs in Albion, still the base idea is the same. Moreover, some top guilds in Albion are already awere of Fractured and interested to hop in when the real action for them starts, perhaps already in beta, or maybe for the launch, will see.
Your idea of link perception to inspection is interesting and something what could be concidered if it could be implemented way that it really offers extra value for the game.
@KairosVal said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Tuoni said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Gothix If gear is human readable or we can inspect other players, then you cannot keep anything as a secret. Furthermore, the streaming and video culture what we have in games nowadays also takes care of that everything can be analyzed afterwards. So someone needs to fight once against the team #1 and all the builds are revealed.
Armor skins are a thing in the Foundation, and will probably exist as cosmetic purchase items in the store.
I prefer human-readable armor, weapons and magical assets, but there's a tradeoff here between human-readability and a revenue stream to keep the servers running. Cashflow matters if we want the game to persist. It is what it is.
Perhaps the human-readable part can be camouflaged behind skins, but if we have option to inspect then it does not really matter. Yeah I agree that those streams and videos are important for the game and something which just cannot be avoided. And who even cares if meta builds are revealed? At least I do not, I rather watch those battles, and perhaps just for fun.
@Manaia said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Tuoni said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Gothix If gear is human readable or we can inspect other players, then you cannot keep anything as a secret. Furthermore, the streaming and video culture what we have in games nowadays also takes care of that everything can be analyzed afterwards. So someone needs to fight once against the team #1 and all the builds are revealed.
This, exactly! If character/gear inspection is available, all it takes is time to see what skills the opponents are using.
Albion is here a perfect example because territory wars there will be somewhat similar what sieges will be in Fractured. People are watching streams when teams are fighting each other or they watch those afterwards from youtube. I have watched my guilds matches from stream and several top matches from youtube. Some of the matches comes even with commentary like Kostan and Lewpac has done, it gives more eSport feeling. So it is vain to expect something to be in secret, and I do not personally even want that.
@Gothix said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Tuoni you can inspect someones gear yes, but not their build. At least I hope you will not be able to.
Builds are easily revealed after a recorded siege for example. You can see what people wear and what abilities they use. So I am not sure how this can be avoided.
Anyway, I agree with you that we do not need to be concerned about the meta. It will be formed, it will be changed, and it lives its own life. Some people will make straight copies, some people create own variations and some people goes with their own visions. I do not personally care how people create their builds, I just focus to build mine, usually it is something which suits best for my personal playstyle rather than a straight copy from meta.
@Gothix If gear is human readable or we can inspect other players, then you cannot keep anything as a secret. Furthermore, the streaming and video culture what we have in games nowadays also takes care of that everything can be analyzed afterwards. So someone needs to fight once against the team #1 and all the builds are revealed.
@Razvan said in Concerns related to the attributes:
What competitive scene do you guys believe Fractured will have?
This is a good question.
I expect sieges to be the competitive PvP content. I presume it pages Albion online's territory wars but has more participants than 5v5. Perhaps 20v20 would be closer what we can see in Fractured, however, I would actually like to see different size battles depending of the stage of the city which is under the siege. That would make sense and give different size guilds to a chance to achieve proper size objects.
I am not sure how much there will be competion in PvE, but perhaps those mazes and asteroids could have some potential to work as PvE "end-game" content. I hope we are going to see open world dungeons, world bosses and maybe some kind of raids so people have some nice things to do also with PvE content.
I guess there will be some kind of meta for different aspects but most likely the most important meta will be related to competitive PvP (sieges). Other activities (PvE, OWPvP) are most likely much more unforgiving (what it comes to builds), and actually that can be a good thing because it would be nice to have a lot of variations there.
