Posts made by Farlander

Yes but your answer says almost all leaders need charisma. Meaning charisma is not the only qualifying stat to ensure followers. From his reply I'm seeing he mentions other ways other stats could be used. There have been many leaders through history that didn't have charisma to lead but power. However, we are talking about pets which go off a person's personality. If you treat a pet bad it leaves. If you treat a pet good it stays. Those would be charisma based. Now if we have intelligent pets that have their own sentience, that's a whole new situation. Those are companions like maybe npcs.

@Xzait Everyone may be "born" with the same amount of points to spend on stats but in real life that is not true. In real life there are disabilities people are born with. That is another whole topic that is not worth discussing since the game does not start you with those.

However, what we can discuss, which is my point all along, is that a new player has the starting amount of points. A well played character will have access to gear that has boosted their stats. From the chart provided here

https://fracturedmmo.com/feature-spotlight-5-character-creation-attributes-resting/

It seems stats cap at 21 unless the chart just doesn't show further. If a player has found gear that boosts all their stats to 20 (if that is even possible) they most assuredly have a vertical progression over a starting player. At 20 every stat has a special bonus. If a player had all of those they will dominate a new character. Granted a new character could get to that point but that is how all vertical games progress. A well developed character with a larger stat pool is definitely more powerful than a newly made character with starting gear and stats. Even if those stats don't all go to 20+ they still have more total stats which gives them an edge. I have not seen anywhere that we are told you have x amount of total stats you can have from all items. If there is no hard cap for every character then vertical is the limit.

Are you going to tell me that starting gear is equal to gear crafted with advanced materials? Does advanced gear come with stat equalizing? For every bonus there is a negative?

Now let's move to knowledge. According to this chart if you blow it up and read it

https://fracturedmmo.com/feature-spotlight-3-knowledge-system/

Says all over the place as you increase your knowledge you gain x amount of bonus to stats. For example do you think a newly created character could take on a player who has endurance regen, stamina regen, mana regen. Let's say the character has maxed all his knowledge. He now has tons of small bonuses which in total does amount to alot of power increase. We've been told knowledge is not limited. You can literally learn everything. Did I remember that statement wrong? If you can learn everything then again you move vertically upward.

This is why I'm confused over people saying horizontal progression when I see alot of vertical progression.

So I consulted some online sources for differences.

https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/27hsry/whats_the_difference_between_vertical_and/

In this article they talk about horizontal knowledge being you have 8 slots to fill with skills. As you learn different ones you have to replace old ones. In this game you can learn everything. Likewise on stats you have x amount to move around and that's the total amount of stat pool you have to work with forever. That works here as well since you can't change your base stats except in comes gear. Like any other game as WoW better gear will mean better characters. If it were horizontal progression then gear would come with say +5 strength but then stack on enough negatives like -2 int, -2 wis and -1 charisma to level it out. Did anyone see that on gear? If gear only came with a bonus then stats are not equal for everyone all the time.

I guess I can't say I've ever played a horizontal game before. Most the games I have played have been rpg gear grabs with leveling. All of which make you much better than starting out. I think of a true horizontal game as a first person shooter. You come out of the spawn just as able to kill another player as they do character wise. From all I have read I just don't see a newly made character able to kill a character that has been well geared and learned all the knowledge.

I played UO for 9 years. Pets were definitely a point of argument in pvp and pve. You could train a pet to be a huge overbalance. In fact, the best pve characters were tamers with a mob of pets. Those stats weren't static and extremely high stats are definitely a game breaking thing. Stats are usually a direct link to the power of any creature. High hps meant your pet could tank and withstand a ton of damage. With a healer behind it you could tank without ever really worrying about losing your pet unless you got mobbed by spawn.

So all items will have a specific amount of stats and how those are distributed will be different? Does this mean that even the basic items will have the same amount of total statistics as the items created with the best materials possible just spread over more categories? Are there going to be categories not allowed with base materials where advanced materials are able to cover?

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how I'm going to be improving my character if a newly created character has access to the same stuff as my guy who has been around for years. If all there is to do is explore and see new stuff and gain knowledge eventually a player will achieve all of that. In fact, it is my experience that hardcore gamers will blast through new content at a rate much faster than devs can produce. Without vertical advancement on characters what will keep those players from leaving?

I hope the devs are not trying to create a world where everyone is equal in power. That's not realistic nor will it be fun. Players have to see improvement in their character or what is the point of playing? Just like in real life not everyone is created equal. You have professional sports players and you have backyard scrubs who don't get picked for teams. The good thing about a game is with time and work you can be that professional. However, if everyone is equal and never hopes to be more than that what is there to do in the game? Exploration and socialization will not compel a player to stay long. I also don't even see the point of treasure if it basically does nothing other than alter cosmetics. If there is no increase in power other than across a horizontal tier that gives you better stats for a specific situation why chase loot? I'd much rather have armor that covers a broad spectrum than have to have 10 different sets of armor depending upon where I was going for that day. Not to mention you aren't going to carry all that armor with you to trade out for each area you travel through.

I will just have to wait to see the system working for myself before I understand it I guess.

I don't agree with option 1. It creates a huge balancing problem for pvp. It also never made sense to me that a player could develop their pets into creatures that didn't even exist in the game as spawn. When you tame a pet you shouldn't be able to develop it's stats far beyond the original. I also think there should be a timer on resing a pet so you can't just keep resing them as they die while tanking with them.

Tamers are often OP in games and balancing them is very important especially with regards to pvp.

When we talk about pets here is this also enveloping the ones you buy from the gold store? I was understanding that those were soft and cuddly and only were for cosmetics. Can they fight with you?

I guess I'm not really understanding horizontal progression. Progression seems to suggest items get better but horizontal seems to suggest not going up. So how does something get better if it doesn't increase in power? What makes stuff better as it moves horizontally?

Since players were able to find gear that boosted stats with fairly new characters in alpha I wonder how easy it will be to find gear once the game launches. How viable is it to get your character maxed to 20 on all stats? As was said will there be bonuses above the listed cap? So many questions I will need to answer before making a real character lol.

It might actually be easier to find formulas because certain parts are not added in yet. Think of each category as a building block. As other stat producing parts are added in you can narrow down what it actually added.

Lol I was hoping it would get traction this time. Maybe it will get brought up again and the devs will give in

I wouldn't say looking at min/maxing is completely useless at this point. We are at a stage when those numbers can change easier. If no one looks at them then the devs may not see any issues. I agree those formulas/tables will change because I'm sure they are not perfect from the start. I must say I appreciate those guys that do this and put it up on the third party sites because I'm too lazy to do it myself lol.

The majority of the guys that I know who pvp are definitely min/maxers. Trying to be better than other players is what they do. Roleplay, exploring, socializing with others at make believe tea parties is not their thing. Whether you pvp or not you still need to know this info because everyone who wants to explore everything will be forced into pvp at some point. I'm really interested in how a character improves. I'd love to see some hard numbers on gear, stats, knowledge and any other damage modifying effects that improve a character over time.

The only situation that will likely matter is pvp. Most players won't complain if you are doing as well as them in pve if you are 1 hour old and they are 5 years old. However, I don't see how someone with +5 on all their stats won't destroy someone as a fresh creation. If we compared it to dnd of two level one characters, the guy who has +5 on all his stats is going to beat the other almost every time unless the weaker guy gets alot of rolls in his favor. The added bonuses are big enough that the weaker guy is not going to be able to overcome the difference in bonuses from the stats.

That being said, every player in my campaign would quit if over 5 years they didn't see any improvements to their character to beat a level 1 guy hands down. I would imagine that achievements from knowledge give you bonuses to defense, attack, better spells with higher damage etc...Those are going to stack to the point the new guy will get creamed by a well developed character. Developers can't make new content faster than players play it. So if "working" on your character to improve it isn't a thing what is there for players to do?

I just don't see how the game is going to balance every character new and old to be able to compete on any scale and still make it fun for players who want to see their characters improve.

Didn't I read during the last alpha that players were finding items that increased stats? I thought I saw someone posted an increase in the range of 4-6. When stats cap at 18 (I believe) 6 would be a significant increase. I haven't seen how bonuses scale but I would think someone with all stats at 18 from items would do alot better than someone right out of the gate. I just don't see how the game is going to equalize a player that has capped all their knowledge and gear and still have a player newly created able to beat them. If that is possible I don't see how the game is going to hold interest for players who want to see improvements in their characters. You will basically never improve if the achievements are so small to not matter from your initial character creation.

Hopefully they have worked out some balancing issues by now. Tamers are one of the hardest classes to balance with regard to combat. Hopefully you can "stable" pets and bring them out when you want them.

Friends definitely matter...at least for me. I played SWTOR for 2 years with friends. When they all left I was the last holdout. That's because I absolutely loved the game. I stuck it out another year or so going solo. I eventually left because I just had no fun playing alone.

As long as there are chat bars and chat programs languages are moot because how many times do you type in spatial chat at that point? So other languages will only affect meeting people you don't know. Other than having achievements or knowledge point gains I can see it being ignored alot of the time.

They will still be dealing with bugs with purchases and with upset people because they want their missing stuff or gold that's missing. Maybe they can offer discounts during the testing to entice testing

A language barrier is a degree of difficulty at the beginning of the game. Casual players will leave if they can't interact with their friends.

People are less likely to test the shop if they know they are stuck with the item after purchase. I know that can be said of any player starting out the game even when the game is live. I just think testers will be less likely to spend their dynamight gold with so many unknowns. Once the game launches you will have some places on the internet to research those items before purchasing via youtube or wiki. At least I'm speaking for myself.