Best posts made by asspirin

@Jetah devs stated there WILL be paladin-like classes (for example Restoration school spells will be castable in plate), however mana costs will probably be big. Also you CAN melee in light armour (with mage armour etc.), so what´s the big deal.

There´s already topic about "why cant i be glass cannon in full plate with no downside?

1. Glass cannon in full plate and shield is no longer glass, only tanky cannon.
2. If wearing heavier armour would affect spell damage, you would suck as mage; if it would affect cd, you would have to manage to nuke enemy down with combo, if not, you would suck as mage; if it would give you huge malus on mana cost, you wouldn´t last very long - you would suck as mage.

Balance point of view - you´re either Tank, DPS or anything between, but not both. Everyone can use any ability and any talent, so only way to further balance is restriction via armour. Same with shields (no offensive spells with shields).

@Razvan Hmm, good old times Too bad game was simplier if you just hacked it with sword But learning combos from PaiMei´ish master was fun.

From old gameplays we can see you can use water to electrify for example, so far we cannot summon it. But we have Conjuration school of magic and many spells are still unknown. Or if you used cold spell, puddle might remain on the ground after the spell ends (but it would probably take way more work. Let them concentrate on important stuff).

@Xzoviac

I can see your point but I dont know if it would be as bad as you think if skills are balanced correctly

And that´s actually my point - If you go heavy armour (high defence) your offence should suffer for balance purposes.

Melees are ment to be tanks - most of time is spend chasing enemy or aggroing, so damage is inconsistent. But they balance it with high sustain. defence > offence
Melee assassins have ways to remain close to enemy (shadowsteps, invisibility in general, paralyzations) and they need way less time to kill (bigger attack speed, higher crits that also occure more often). offence > defence
Ranged assassins damage is consistent as they can remain stationary to deal damage from afar, but as they go full damage, theyre the most fragile ones. offence >>> defence

Tank wizard will likely be

aoe dive in or dots because burst that does not have all skills in burst just wont be that effective but out lasting your enemys could be tank wizards speciality.

Yes, sure, but for balance purposes damage shouldnt be too high so dots would be rather annoying than deadly and aoes woudlnt do much, such character would be more usable as CC. But then it would be just regular warrior tank Or restoration and buff skills ----> voila, paladin.

Most people will cutty cutter and tanks should be easy to smash down if they are not full tanking it with tank skills

The thing is "tank wizard" will be weaker version of wizard and weaker version of tank. Tanks will eventually outlast them and DPSs will out damage them, so they will not contribute to fight much. Such character looks like a Bard to me, but bard at least buffs his teammates. Thinking about it I wouldnt actually mind meeting such character in game as an enemy, it would probably be a free frag in duel

@Razvan

If it's a flat amount of damage reduction with liniar scaling

I´ve already asked devs because I was curious if 2h weapons will have any damage bonus over 1h and shield. Armour doesn´t have any flat damage reduction, so 1h+ shield has quite same dps + bigger defence

@Clinion In Fractured armour doesn´t slow you down (be it attack or move speed) and you can deal high damage in heavy armour. However all weapons have same dps (one handed weapon will do more weaker attacks, 2h will do fewer, but stronger) and while 2h weapon will have huge damage if hit connects, you will be in trouble if you miss few times in row.

You have 8 slots for abilities, im sure you can put some gap closers in there. Maybe one two nukes with "slow" or some such CC, why not.

P.S: "Heavy knights" were mainly cavalry and though they could fight dismounted, 15-20kg of armour does slow you down if on foot (and in muddy terrain).

@Gothix Yes, but I was referring to Health in Fractured. Health pool from other games is replaced by Endurance (gained via STR), which basically makes Health (from CON) nearly pure PvE stat. So far Health has no purpose in pvp and neither does CON (except Fortify saves).

All stats except PER and CON serve offensive and defensive purposses (str gives melee dmg and endurance, endurance regen and armour, DEX lets you dodge more spells and attacks and also gives you attack speed etc.
Perception is purely offensive attribute, gives you literally zero survivability, but makes up for it with bigger accuracy, crit chance and even crit damage.
Constitution is purely defensive ... but gives one save, some minor resists and thats it.
While PER enables you to go uber crit build with 3x damage crits, CON gives you 20% damage resistance to only few damage types.

Also abilities - PER based abilities look nice (damage enhancing and accuracy increasing Death Mark, mages and CC specialists might need some PER too to hit CC, also Hunting and Assassination depends on it, probably also Unarmed and some schools like Divining.
CON based: probably few in warfare - so far mana and fatigue draining temporal speed up (Frenzy) and panic heal which actually depletes your 1/3 of health to refresh endurance...also has huge CD (Second wind). Hope Necromancy blood spells will somewhat work with CON or Health to make the attribute desirable

Thats what the topic is about

@Gothix

keep same mana / stamina usage, but make particular ability cooldowns different based on what type of armor you are wearing (that jump could have shorter CD if used with one type of armor and longer CD if used while wearing another type of armor)

than tank would just do what assains do --> release all the nukes and hope for best, meanwhile go melee (lesser risk in full plate) and wait for CD; this is imo not the way to go

not restrict ability efficiency, but make particular abilities cost a lot more / less mana / stamina depending on type of armor used (that jump could be cheaper in one armor type, while draining you more in different armor type)

would be doable, but would demand huge mana management, healing can be done with bandages + potions however, so mana maluses would have to be huge; in ADaD heavy armour would give spell chance to fail ---> in Fractured it would translate as "reduce spell chance to hit" aka reduce accuracy

that jump for example could have longer / shorter range, depending on lightness of your armor)

EDIT:

yes...or you can just use "

" (02:28) My point is warriors will probably offer same skills as mages even in full plate, and there are no classes ---> mages can use warrior skills too. By voluntary nerfing effect of mage gap closer you basically wrote you´d use weaker version of warrior skill you can use with full potential. Why would you do this ?

but make particular abilities a lot more efficient / inefficient depending on type of armor used

So lower the damage ---> you would be using spells to do some serious damage and then use heavy armour to lower the damage back to medium? Why

@KairosVal

Still thank you. Btw poison scaling seems procentual (even if would depend on current health/endurance) as so far severity of poison is measured on scale 1-5 (probably not 1%-5% hp , but might be calculated from it). However there´s no such thing on Bleeding strike, but it can be stacked, right.

Would test it, but 1) graphic card died recently, waiting for new one, 2) only have beta access

Have a nice day

@Gothix said in Suggestion: Different spells have different armor requirements:

No. In fact my point is, warriors should not have long range "jumps", "charges", or any long range gap closers.

It completely depends how soft and hard CC will be dealt with ( it would suck for melee to get permaslowed), gap closers might be mandatory (or at least some kind of movement speed boost)

If your armor is 5kg then you jump (arbitary numbers) 20 yards, if your armor is 50kg, then you jump 3 yards, if your armor is somewhere in between, you jump appropriately as well.

it seems logical, but guys with 5kg armour (rogues) will "Blink strike" or "teleport to backstab" which is pure magic, so imo logic doesnt apply here. I get what you mean, mechanic doesn´t seem bad, but heavy armour guys unable to cast spells (so they permanently have to chase you around to land melee hits) and unable to go invisible (for better initiation / to escape anytime) are already disadvantaged.

In case heavy armor offers "better protection", and does not nerf damage potention, then movement HAS TO be nerfed.

if warrior is melee (limitation as in heavy plate - cant go invis, cant cast offensive spells) : he has nice damage, but enemy can kite him --> he needs huge damage to be competitive, because enemy doesn´t stand in place and warrior doesnt have many opportunities to deal damage - so no nerf please
if war could go invis (limitation as in medium armour - no offensive spells) : movement speed doesnt matter that much anymore because enemy wouldnt know war´s position, he could sneak to him and blink strike from short distance - nerf wouldnt have much effect
if war could cast spells (limitation like if in cloth armour) : if I could cast ranged spells, why would i move (except to evade something or to chase, but then i can CC ) - nerf useless

Other options is to not nerf anything, but make heavy armor not offer "better protection" overall, only the different kind of protection.

like each armour having better protection against one element / damage type? Or how is it ment? Only thing of is Path of exile system (heavy armour = much physical armour, medium = evasion specialist, mage armour = mana shield which shields actual health). Maybe make difference in enchanting - heavy armour = only defensive enchants, medium = both, light only offensive enchants (this would limit heavy plate users offence, but also light users defence, however mages rarely rely on their armour, they have CC and magic defence right).

@Razvan Wasn´t it stated, that Arboreus is world rich on resources and Tartaros has very few of them? Furries should have no problems and demons will probably rape each other...or one (the biggest) demon guild will absorb everyone as they will have no competition - making whole demon world one coordinated guild ... sounds terrifying

@Shivashanti Nothing as "too much info"

@Razvan My wild guess it technology = firearms + steam tech aka "what dwarfs would get in any generic fantasy mmorpg. Devs stated humans will have access to steam powered mounts...this might be just a mount skin however. Anyway firing the arquebus is easier with 5 fingers than with hooves, so my bet is on this.

@Nekrage Demon races are only one who get access to passives - beastmen get active shapeshift (useless if you dont plan to use them for whatever reason) and human race gets nothing - yes, they get more points, so you can be above average in more fields, but you can get only one natural 20 in stats. Beastmen can get 3 natural 20s, so they can specialise much deeper, but they´re also forced to some roles. Demons can specialise just as well as beastmen, but their passives seem to be always usefull without being forced to have a shapeshift skill occupy one of the 8 precious ability slots.

And imo the assassin demon seems pretty stong (during night ofc - dont know the actual bonus you get, but it´s free damage and his bonuses on STR and PER are pure offence bonuses so he might be best glass canon backstabber). Tanky brute demon also seems competent (with his passive dmg resist and maximum STR and CON). Looking forward to see them on battlefield

Just look at how many "omg this looks like a great game, should i get it" to "how's the game, is it fun, what can i do right now".

Couldn´t age be a factor there? Seems to me like child behavior. But this game isn´t aimed at youngest audience right? Seems to me most fans come from Ultima Online

@Tuoni

correct

Beastman:

• get one stat to 25 and rest to average/low or
• get 3 stats to natural 20 and rest to super low

Human:
can get 4x 18 (of which one can be turned into natural 20 any time in the game, further making it 22 with items) or 6x 15 or anything between.

So beastmen / demons are VERY specialised and once you go race you have to follow its archetype (bear- tank, deer - nuker etc.) and stay like it forever.
Human race on the other hand can completelly respec on the go from mage to warrior to assassin by just switching gear and redistributing talents at camp. You can go into dungeon like a dedicated healer and crawl out like assassin.

I´m still convinced that giving human race further improvements (in form of active abilities like beastmen or passives like demons) would make them way too strong. Looking forward to their technology however.

@Razvan

Exactly.
The way it is now heavy is tanky armour, cloth is damage armour. By "cloth resists magic" and "heavy resists weapons" you would only make heavy armour less tanky against mages and cloth more tanky against them ---> making both of them situationally tanky or useless (just like with "Resist fire/poison ability granting immunity to element" - you either pwn your enemy as youre immune or he pwns you, if he is immune to your damage ... sry to repeat it everywhere i can, but immunities have nothing to do in pvp game ). Also don´t forget not all abilities can be used in all armour (or with shield, orneed some weapon etc.), having to balance everything this way would be imo too chaotic. Why not keep it simple - tank-plate, assassin - medium, mage - cloth. It´s classical holy trinity system used everywhere, because it works.

Player could then (if he can wear anything) mix and match, leather hat, cloth pants, plate chest,... And make his armor balanced for all, or he could min max cloth armor for specific magic protection for certain tasks, for example.

So if resist would average, isn´t it exactly same as if I´d go full heavy / medium / light ( leather hat, cloth pants, plate chest = medium hat, medium pants, medium chest) ?

So far in PvE there are planned enemies with immunity to at least one damage type (and I hope immunities will not make it into PVP), so physical damage fighters will probably get some kind of "enchant" to their weapons that will convert some kind of damage to different (like in Path of Exile), assassins will have poisons and possibility to do pure damage and casters can use different elements.

So to question: will all damage caused by weapon be classified as physical ( i mean pure damage from Concussive Strike isn´t stated as blunt nor physical, but is applied by physical mean and by blunt weapons. Same with Strike wounds - stabbing weapon.

And what about Bleeding damage - it it considered physical damage or own damage type (like in Grim Dawn). If damage from Eviscerate and Bleeding strike scales from weapon is it considered physical damage or pure damage or some kind of straight % hp removal? And if bleeds are physical, which armour reduces it - does it depend on weapon that caused bleeding (piercing/slashing)?

Also - will all damage types be available to all archetypes (aka bleeding damage attacks as Spell abilities for casters etc.)? Or will physical damage be mostly available to warfare, assassination and hunting? And will all damage types be available for all Attributes (bleeding scaling not only from PEN and CON but also others)?

Thank you

@Gibbx said in Have you noticed also?:

I just hope one can meet more childish children then childish adults . Im sure Im wiser (or maybe just less stupid) than I was 10 years ago It´s ment more like "30 yo guy doesn´t have to prove anything online to himself", but my answer is probably OT, original post was ment more like "modern age simplifies everything so everyone is too lazy and bored, everything is either black or white". I totally agree on that.

@Tuoni
If there are Abilities as counters ( If im fire specced mage Id like some kind of ability to reduce resists or totally remove it at least for a moment ) Im fine with it. But being multidamage hybrid is boring - resist reducers for specific damage type cannot be used as I´d have to have one for each element/damage type and one resisted damage (against which enemy is immune) will uselessly occupy one skill slot

@Gothix

then find a party, gear up for your role in party

The game is supoposed to be soloable, right?

to have multiple sets of armor, and then prepare for expedition, gear for what you aim

...and then pray you wont meet ganker with spells if youre in heavy armour ? pve point of view: so for every mobs youre going to farm you´ll switch armour? So everyone should be tank (by picking proper armour type for pve fights)?

As Razvan posted - how about pvp? Will there be even be CC tanks? if so, what will they wear? Will your team consist of tanks in robe agains spells and tanks in plate against fighters ? Or will whole big scale pvp consist of running from countering armour and finding armour guy you counter? Maybe i dont get something, but this doesnt seem doable.

@Nekrage

Being immortal for 5 seconds which is the time it takes you to kill a player is not balanced for a glass canon build.

agreed, such skill should have way lower duration - should be kind of circuit breaker to let you teleport away / stabilise yourself with healing / disable enemy aka used rather defensively, offensively it could really be way too OP unless enemy has any invisibility / any other way to survive the 5 sec rampage; and if used defensively maybe disable offensive casting or something, then it would not be as OP

Being immortal for 5 seconds on a tanky build that takes you 30 seconds to kill an enemy is certainly more on the balanced side.

balanced - yes, necessary? - no; that would be imo contraproductive - tank does all he can to get aggro and CC, if he takes immunity spells or super shields, why would enemy attack him? Such "immunity spells" are ment for dps (Black king bar in Dota for example - never picked by tank because it would make him a tank yelling "just ignore me"). And more armour/more reduction is awesome for healers - easier to heal guys with high resistances than high health pool, so looking forward to equipping heavy armour (unless pure damage attacks are meta or too OP).

Shields did nothing in the latest test beyond letting you use ONE ability.

So far with 25 CON you get to block 100% dmg every 2 seconds (also one of enchant stats is "Cooldown" - maybe will be presented in Talents or somewhere else and hopefully will also affect CD of block), including crits and effects (stun/bleed/anything) from melee / ranged attacks; it sure does nothing against spells, but as you have physical melee / ranged covered, you can invest in elemental/magic resist; imo its rather OP than useless.

Also except Invocation and Conjuration spells you could cast all you like with a shield - healers and supports can be in front line and feel little more safe (if nothing more it saves agains backstabs out of nowhere).

but wait, there´s more - unless something got changed even the tinest dagger is supposed to have exactly same DPS as hugest polearm (weaker hits but faster - which is nice for critting more often and also negates shield), I was frequently asking what do 2h users get to compensate (2x stronger enchants on 2h? more bonus dmg from STR like in WoW? anything?) for low speed, but dont remember there were many reasons to go 2h way because armour doesnt absorb flat numbers but percents. Im really curious how dual wielding will be solved however.
But it´s just me, might be wrong ofc.

Restrictions = balance.

absolutely agree